How much will it cost? - the wrong question

Great things often cost us something. We are often worried about this kind of thing, but how we approach issues of price in the church often hamstrings us and folds us back into past behaviors and results.

When it comes to cost, we like to ask, How much does it cost?
When the church needs a new roof? how much does it cost?
When the youth ministry needs me to volunteer? How much will it cost me?
When the Senior Pastor invites people to build a Habitat House? How much will it cost?
We need to hire a coach or consultant to help us become what we believe we need to be? How much will it cost?

We like to count the cost... better said, we like to count the cost like this. We quietly think this is biblical. After all Jesus told us to count the cost, didn't he.

How much will it cost, is a question of being a good steward... right? or are we just spiritualizing our unwillingness to be faithful.

How much will it cost? is the wrong question. No matter how nice it sounds, it only leads us to repeat the past and in some cases, to ignore what God is doing in our midst.

As it turns out, asking the question, How much will is cost is subtle way in which disciples can differ responsibility to someone or something else.

Clean Water for children of the world? By asking how much, it allows us to avoid the real issue. I can always blame our budget, or the finance department for not doing something that is right.

The REAL QUESTION is What price am I willing to pay?

That gets at the root of it doesn't it.

I can ask you how much something will cost me, and be disengaged, an give personal responsibility the stiff arm.

Ingrained within "What price am I willing to pay?" is personal responsibility and faithfulness.

Tile for the new building?
What price are we willing to pay?

A dynamic of team of adults investing in local children?
What price am I willing to pay?



So much of leading people is dealing with the disparity and ambiguity between the vision you have for people and where people really are, or are willing to be.
You have hopes for the way people live, but they often let you down. Volunteers don't show up. Monetary commitments aren't met. Follow thru doesn't happen.

Often we see the disparity of what our dream for a project costs and the price our community is willing to pay. This can lead to unintentional manipulation, tricks and gimmicks to try to engage people in paying the price you want them to pay.

But is also becomes an excuse one why you as a leader are unwilling to do the dreams of others. It will cost too much. We can't afford it.

People who lead would do well to ask "What price are we willing to pay?" as a starting point. What ever they are willing to do is the right answer at that time. No amount of talking, vision casting, manipulation, persuasion, dreaming, inspiration or browbeating will change that fact.

You'll find that if your cause is worthwhile, and the environment is safe, people will respond beyond your dreams, just not at the beginning.

Remember, a great leader creates a future, different from the present with people, not in spite of them. Talk about possibilities, but acknowledge reality. The disparity can kill you and others. Give voice to people and let them pay the price they are willing to pay.

Of course this kind of leadership costs you something. If you are a pastor, What price are you willing to pay to make disciples?
If you are a manager, what price are you willing to pay, to have a great team?
If you are a teacher, what price are you willing to pay, to educate kids?
If you are a parent, what price are you willing to pay, to raise your kids?

We all have limits. Somethings we'll give our life for. Others, we do for reasons other than passion. maybe it's ok to say no more often?

Leading differently

Leaders who develop a vision by themselves and then cast it to others bore me. Not because they are boring people. most are pretty dynamic folks. They bore me because it's the lowest form of leadership. the kind of leadership that promises what it can't deliver. At it's root it's belief in the individual leader or their ideas for everyone's future. yawn. it reminds me of the church marquee. "We're praying for you" What could they possibly be praying for me about... really. and who is we? Deep down it's nice to know that there is a church leader somewhere out there targeting me to come to their church. A bit weird and creepy. but they have good intentions for me and my life.

there is a growing number of leaders who sidestep this kind of leadership opportunity and step into a leadership style that isn't... well... so arrogantly individual.

what gets my heart pumping are the leaders who help the people they lead remember and imagine dreams God placed in their lives years ago. Often but these dreams were driven out by circumstances, church leaders, or church machines that endless eat dreams of people and replace them with THE senior pastors dream for their life. these folks aren't buying into the individuals vision, so they just quietly (or not so quietly) step aside and quit, or give up, or dream somewhere else where their dreams will meet the kingdom... outside your church and it's people.

The leaders that excite me reawaken the story God has been working in people. The projects, ministries and people that drove them to place their faith and hope in God in the first place.

Good leaders drive their own vision and they build fantastic sized churches and occasionally deeply committed disciples.

Great leaders empower disciples of all ages, shapes and sizes to dream again. and dream their own dreams.

there's a big difference.

Large Church Youth Ministry Learning Lab

This week I tried something new. A Learning Lab here in Tulsa. I named it "Leadership for the Rest of Us" because I believe in people and how God has gifted them. With so many of the conferences have the same 6 or so presenters and speakers telling the rest of us what leadership is and isn't I felt I'd try a learning lab. Intentionally small, spread by word of mouth, brought together without having to adopt an experts opinion. My hope was to create an alternative experience, something like an un-conference. 12 people converged on Tulsa Monday-Wednesday for a unique experience. Together we wrestled with ways to think of leadership differently. Most were youth pastors and wrestled with ideas related to doing youth ministry differently. What we call, church B. This was also the first module for folks interested in becoming consultants.

It was a beautiful experience.

We will do it again soon. I thinking of doing two different gatherings.

I'm investigating dates right now. But was thinking one of the Learning Labs (module 1) would be for youth pastors in churches larger than 3,000 people.

The second would of course be open just like the others. Then we'd begin to explore Module two together.
If you are interested in either of these? Let me know.
mark@theriddlegroup.com

I've met this guy...

Ignatius from travis hawkins on Vimeo.

(Thanks to Brandon)

Rob does it again.

I love this post from my friend Rob. There's so much power in this little story.

I really thought Tom (my boss and workout partner at a gym) would share my excitement, not get angry. And the worst part was, I didn’t understand what he was so upset about.

It all happened some 25 years ago when I found my very first deer antler in the woods. You may know that a difference between horns (think bulls) and antlers (think bucks) is that animals with antlers drop them each year in the winter and then grow new antlers again in the spring. Animals with horns, however, keep their horns all year around.

Knowing this, every winter when I went in the woods I looked for dropped deer antlers. Given all the time I spent in the woods watching deer and learning their habits, you would have thought I would have easily found an antler or two. But even after years and years and years of looking for them, I never did (part of that is that animals like squirrels and mice eat deer antlers on the ground as a source of calcium).

Finally, when I was maybe 23 years old, I found one (and, ever looking, I haven’t found one since until this year, when I found two!). Finding that antler was one of my life’s great thrills, the culmination of so much time, effort, and tightly focused seeking. Immediately I thought of my little brother, who I would take hiking with me one day every week. “I bet he’d love to find an antler,” I thought to myself.

With that in mind, I put the antler back down in the woods, hiked with my brother to that spot, and then let him “find’ it (he didn’t know I’d found it first). Well, it was telling Tom this story that got him so worked up. “You ruined that for him,” Tom said. “He didn’t spend years longing to find an antler. He hasn’t spent years searching for one. He has no context in which to fully appreciate the accomplishment, and by your making it so easy for him, he never will.”

I was so happy with myself for giving my treasure away to share my joy with brother. Why couldn’t Tom understand that? I didn’t get it.

I do now. There are things that are not ours to give, no matter how desperately we might want to do so. There are things we cannot give, no matter how much we might wish we could. And when we do give them, the danger is not that our gift will not be appreciated or fail to meet our desired ends, but that it will take something even more precious away from the one we seek to love.

I think parents in particular would do well to remember this. We all want to make life easier for our kids, and often have the means to act on our desire. But the truth is, in the end we might just be doing the opposite.

Link

Leadership for the Rest of Us

I'm leading a Learning Lab here in Tulsa April 27-29. If you connect with a much of what I write about regarding leadership, moving beyond a CEO approach and nurturing a sense of engagement with your community this will be a good experience for you.

Here's the link.

Let me know if you have any questions: 918.407.1545

Mark

Bob Hyatt on Video Venues Part 2

I love this part at the end.

And the community that, for instance, pays the tax of listening to a slightly less coherent message, or one with a less-than-Rob-Bell-mind-blow factor, or slightly less entertaining/engaging than Mr Driscoll, is making an investment.

They invest in the teacher they are being taught by. By engaging, listening, giving good feedback (both encouraging and constructive) they help that elder they love, that elder who loves them and is doing his or her best to explore God's Word with them, to learn how to do it better and better.

And in so doing they invest in the future. The future not just of that elder, not just of their community, but of the Church as a whole as we all benefit by more and more people exercising their gifts, gaining mastery in how to do what God has gifted and called them to do.

To me, video venues are at their heart, miserly. They are a symptom of a church who refuses to pay the community tax and invest in the future. They (along with mega churches and even personality-based smaller churches) try to parlay the gift of one or two people into something bigger and bigger, and like short-sighted Americans driving bigger and bigger Hummers say: Who cares about the consequences to future generations? I got mine.

Please understand: I recognize that the vast majority of those engaged in video venues have, at their core, a passion for seeing people come to know, love, and follow Jesus. I get that. And I even get that God uses the silliest of methods to bring people to Him. I'll bet I could even find someone who has been saved through the Evangecube.

But just because God honors our silly methods occasionally doesn't mean we shouldn't look for better ways, perhaps less silly, perhaps ones with fewer unintended consequences.

Link

America less Christian..

I saw this article this evening. It states that America is less Christian than 20 years ago. I'm not sure this is news. It was interesting that the article pointed to a rise in individualism as part of the cause. Again, not really news.

Here's my take.

The article is extremely generous. It's worse than this.

Why?
Because in growing segments of the evangelical church there is fundamentally no difference between the individualism of those who deny being Christian, and the individualism that many evangelical churches preach. This will not last because it is empty. An individualism, me first mentality, wrapped in the language and ideas of Jesus, isn't the way of Christ, because it makes Jesus an accessory and the programs of the church a way to keep my kids out of trouble and help me become a better educated individual. So Bible Studies and programs fill our calendars, and we sit in pews of large churches, and maybe watch our pastor on a screen, while we learn more about Jesus, then we walk out as isolated and alone as we were before.

There has never been a time in history where church has been done better for the individual. Ever. Attending a church with more choices for me and my family. A cafeteria from which I can consume.

It's not done getting better for these churches either. They are still on the upswing and will be for the next 3-5 or so years. But after that they will collapse under their own empty weight.

don't hear me wishing the death of churches. I'm not. I'm simply stating what I see.
Church leaders are free to make their own choices about what kind of churches they are leading and building. They will also have to live with the consequences of life after the bubble bursts. And it will.

All this to say, the article is understating the issue.
the problem for the evangelical church is that it will read the article and think it demands more of the same from them.

But there's more to the story...and there are good things happening in the church as well. I believe the best days are ahead of us and the more I work with church leaders around the country the more encouraged I am by their resolve to think outside of this individualistic, american faith. The risk of breaking off of this american gospel doesn't seem to be one denomination or movement. Southern Baptists, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Churches of Christ all have leaders workout out what leadership looks like. It seems to me additionally that all of our hands are dirty in this too. We are all effected/affected by this. This should bring humility to lives, not judgement.

I have a lot more to say about this and there are certainly some flaws in my thinking, but this is what I thought of when I saw the article.

What do you think? To you see hope? How do you read the article?

Those aren't tears, they're allergies... really.

If it doesn't work go here.

wow...
allergies i say....
you will have allergies too.

My first Youtube Video

don't fall asleep to quickly.

A drug to be a better christian

If there was a drug that you could take that made you better at what you do, would you take it? A drug you could get a prescription for at the doctor. It's not illegal.

It would make you a better preacher. It would allow you to have more confidence in presenting the gospel. It would give you more endurance to spend more hours of your day saving the lost or building the kingdom.

What if it also brought you greater clarity and discernment? So you somehow knew just what to say when it was time to say it. Maybe you even felt like you heard God better, not in some kind of foggy, trippy sense, but in clarity, reason, and awareness of your surroundings.

What if it helped you remember things better? Relationships were helped because you remember names and stories better. You can remember large quantities of scripture that before seemed too much, or difficult to do.

If there was a drug, that made you a better disciple, better evangelist, better servant, more loving and disciplined. 1 little white pill per day. would you take it?

what if I told you your church would grow. to incredible numbers. People would raise their hands in response to the message you proclaimed, would you take it?

I'm curious.

Patti on Age of youth pastors

Patti of YMX fame is talking about one of the chapters of my books.

I want to get my youth ministry and church leadership audience to chime in on something, if you will. Over the past couple of weeks I’ve been reading Mark Riddle’s new book Inside the Mind of Youth Pastors: A Church Leader’s Guide to Staffing and Leading Youth Pastors. I’m writing a review of the book for YMX, and Mark has graciously agreed to answer a slew of questions I sent him and make this humble blog a stop on his blog book tour.

I’ve been thinking a lot about one of the book’s shortest chapters (12), which addresses the elongation of adolescence and the resulting effect that should have on youth pastor hiring decisions. I asked Mark about it so we will eventually hear his input on this question when the blog tour interview appears.

Let me set the stage a bit. Mark, in Inside the Mind, cites research by Dr. Jeffery Arnett (Emerging Adulthood: The Winding Road from Late Teens through the Twenties) which makes a compelling case that, developmentally, the years from 18 to 25 should be considered late adolescence. The characteristics of this developmental stage, Mark argues, should be carefully considered in choosing to hire someone from this cohort as a spiritual leader for those in earlier stages of adolescence.

From Inside the Mind of Youth Pastors, Ch 12, p 82:

If, however, you choose to hire an emerging adult to lead your youth ministry, you must give significant attention to mentoring that person in leadership and discipleship. Teenagers need their youth pastors to have a strong sense of who they are, based on life experiences. They need youth pastors who have a sense of stability in their identities.

Certainly there are men and women in their early to mid-20s who fit the bill, but they are few and far between. Church leaders need to dispel the myth that younger is better for youth ministry leadership. It’s simply not true. In fact, entrusting spiritual leadership of your teenage children to someone who’s still working through the five characteristics [of late adolescence] listed earlier [in the chapter] is irresponsible.

While there is a lot of that which makes good sense to me - considering that car insurance and rental companies have considered this age group less capable of responsible decision-making and judgment in general, and have run their businesses accordingly for, well, ever. That doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority of youth pastors/minister/directors I have ever had contact with got their start in youth ministry as volunteers or staff as young adults in their early 20s.

So, I’m wondering what you think about this. And, if you agree, what are your constructive ideas for ways to bridge the time from the end of college to age 25 for those who have earned ministry degrees, but are not yet “adults” by this developmental measure?

Go over and see what others are saying in the comment section.
Link

My response to Craig Groeschel

Craig Groeshel has a post about being authentic and real when speaking in a church. He encourages pastors to "bring you" to the table. Here's his post.

It seems incredibly ironic that a pastor who has built his church on video venues would talk about the importance of bringing all of himself to the message. But I'm learning here. and it would be the height of arrogance think I know best and sort of passively aggressively post stuff here without engaging him.

So I posted the following in the comment section of the post. He's a busy guy and frankly may not want to mess with a peon like myself. But we'll see. Below is my response to his post.
--------------------


Craig, I'm not sure how to say this bro. I hope you hear my heart in this comment, not as critical, but as curious... I love your content here on this post and I believe in what you are saying so much. But I frankly find it misleading. (unintentionally misleading)

You don't bring yourself to people every week my friend. (can I call you friend?) You bring a representation of yourself, with no soul, no body, no real life, only a thin version of yourself. It's probably better say, that you don't bring yourself to everyone. Because some people are present with you when you give your speech.

A thin Craig, online, or on a screen is not you and it will always be a poor substitute for you. It's not the real you. It's a dis-incarnate you, with frankly a dis-incarnate gospel.

Which is simply a poor far less than ideal way of being real. Mickey Roarke was real in the Wrestler. Phillip Seymore Hoffman is amazing in his roles. Meryl Streep and other actors are amazing. There is a part of the real them in the role on the screen. A thin authenticity. they are real, in the same way a speaker is presented on a screen. Regardless of if they are talking about God or not.

Am I wrong? help me understand. because I believe in you and your ministry,and your gifts. It just seems misleading to say you on a screen is real.

Staff member angst

I just got off the phone with my friend Jay and he spurred a thought. (thanks Jay!)

I'm not sure a week goes by where I don't hear about someone on a church staff feeling angst in one way shape or form because they serve on church staff in which the leaders believe or function from a "command and control", "consumer" or "attractional" style of leadership.

All three of these things are often related in my mind. The core issue for each is responsibility. In each of these settings the leader views themselves as the expert and the person who much influence others to live in "god's will". that is to say, that the leader knows best. So power and authority are big topics in these environment. The top gets it, and the followers fall in line with the vision from this leader. We'll take care or your kids, don't worry about it. We'll teach your the right way to read your Bible, don't worry about it. We'll plan and organize ways for you to lead, so you can use your gifts. I assume you get the idea. I've written about this in other places,so I'll move on.

there are those on church staff within these churches get frustrated. they may not completely understand where their frustration is coming from, but they often use words like missional, or service, or owning their life with Christ.

Often, the frustration leads to resentment. Resentment that things don't change fast enough. Resentment that they can't lead their ministries how they want to. Resentment that the leader hold the power and won't share it so that the staff person can be faithful.

do you see the irony of this?

Let me say it clearly.

Your identity as a follower of Christ is not wrapped up in your job. Or it doesn't have to be. You are not your job and your ministry had better extend beyond your job description. The youth pastor who encourages small groups for teens, but has no real peer community themselves will only feel resentment because their identity is wrapped up and consumed in their job.

Waiting for the top to give you permission to personally live missionally is the definition of irony. It's both rejecting the system as a power holding organism, and waiting for it to give you authority to live.

Create space in your life for ministry outside your job. The top may never get it. But you have a personal life. Live it. Create some margin, and be the kind of person you hope to be. Lead the kind of ministry you hold to lead.

I'd give you permission, but I'm not sure you need it...

Toilet Paper your Sr. Pastor's office

Don, a Senior Pastor in No Cal got his office Tee-Peed in retaliation. He knew he deserved it. More church staff team's might think about building relationships that allow for this kind of interaction.

Read the story here.

Module 1 - Leadership for the Rest of Us

So I'm hosting my first ever leadership learning lab. Read below and see if it's for you!

Leadership for the Rest of Us
Module 1: Leading Church B
April 27 - April 29, 2009

Leading Church B is a combined experiential training, learning lab and retreat for all who want to create and apply practices of working effectively with others to create innovative and comprehensive solutions during times of change. It is a powerful leadership practicum as well as a daily pattern and practice for individuals, communities, families, businesses and organizations who aspire to work in more interactive, engaging and effective ways. This particular Module is advanced training based on the basic foundation found in Mark Riddle’s book Inside the Mind of Youth Pastors.

We welcome fellow leaders – trainers, youth pastors, senior pastors, executive pastors, consultants, youth workers, church plant organizations, leaders of missionary organizations, church board members - pioneers from various roles of church leadership- who want to see and act wisely from a different perspective and practice leadership where our own and other people’s courage, creativity, intelligence and wisdom are set free.

This Training is NOT for Spectators:

Our learning will start with the presenters content, but will grow out of participant contributions and presence – we will support one another as co-learners.

We will learn by observation, experience and practice, using an interactive process to build a safe challenging and inspiring environment.

Develop competence in several interactive processes including unearthing assumptions, advocacy and inquiry and others that produce learning and clarity, creativity and shared commitment to action.


The Hosting Team

Mark Riddle
Mark Riddle is an entrepreneur, speaker, coach, pastor and writer. He serves as the lead pastor of the Eikon, a community committed to living out the dreams of God in Tulsa and the world.

Mark leads the Riddle Group, a coaching and consulting firm committed to collaborating with local church leaders to promote and develop sustainable ministries.
Mark is the author of “Inside the Mind of Youth Pastors: A Church Leaders Guide to Staffing and Leading Youth Pastors” (Zondervan / January 2009).
Mark teaches the 3 course Certificate at Biblical Seminary outside Philly and speaks to coaches church leaders around the country. Mark spends a lot of time with Lead Pastors, Youth Pastors, Church board members and volunteers.

Jonathan Reitz
Founder of the Leader Shed, Jonathan is a gifted speaker, and coach. A natural leader with over 10+ years of ministry experience, Jonathan has worked as a denominational staff member, and as a third party coach. He is a requested speaker, author & coach for ministries of all sizes in the areas of strategic planning, stewardship, & staff development. Jonathan also works in corporate coach development and life coaching.

April 27-29- Conference starts Monday evening and ends Wednesday noon.

Location: Agora is a unique church in mid-town Tulsa - living missionally within the marketplace.

Agora in Tulsa, OK.
4959 South 79th East Ave
Tulsa, Oklahoma 74145

Registration Deadline is April 7, 2009 – Space is limited to 40 participants to maximize this experience. Spaces tend to fill up quickly. Registration is not confirmed until payment is received.

Registration Contact:
Mark Riddle
918.407.1545 (Tulsa, OK. Central Standard Time)
mark@theriddlegroup.com
1807 S. Gardenia Pl.
Broken Arrow, OK. 74012

Cost: $225 (tuition) This does not include meals, lodging or transportation.

We have priced this event to provide modest support for the hosting team and pay for the cost of the facilities, registration and materials. This is seminar is based upon hundreds of similar gathers the hosts have facilitated. However this particular date will be an updated version. For this reason we have significantly lowered the tuition from $1,299 to $225.

Entrepreneurs and Juvenile Delinquents

Loved this CNN article about entrepreneurs. Ask my wife if I'm stubborn, delusionally optimistic, creative, fearless and focused... and ignorant. some of you already know the answer to that.

When to quit -- said Kamen, also the inventor of health care technologies and the Slingshot water purifier -- is "the toughest question there is" for any entrepreneur who survives on creativity and instinct.

"It's not nearly as glamorous as people think to keep working on something and to keep hitting roadblocks and to keep going," he said.

Stubborn, delusionally optimistic, creative, fearless, flexible and focused are some of the ways psychologists and business people describe the personality of an entrepreneur. Surprisingly, another word is ignorant.

"You need to be in denial or in ignorance about the huge challenges you face," laughs Guy Kawasaki, a former Apple executive and entrepreneur who's starting the self-described "magazine rack" alltop.com. "You have to believe that it wouldn't be hard for you to succeed."

Research by Harvard Business School psychology professor emeritus Abraham Zaleznik has unveiled a darker side to the entrepreneur's psyche.

"Entrepreneurs tend to have a singular weakness that allows them to do things without checking their conscience," Zaleznik said. "Juvenile delinquents act and then try to sort things out afterward. I think entrepreneurs have this tendency."

Another academic researcher on the topic, professor Kelly Shaver of the College of William & Mary, told Forbes magazine in 2002 that successful entrepreneurs "really don't care as much" about what other people think. "They're just happy to go ahead and do what they're doing."

Link

The future of pastoral leadership

discernment for top down leaders means being wise when someone needs your expert advice and giving them good answers.

discernment for the rest of us means being wise when it comes to if we answer at all.

giving an answer, making a call, setting a course, giving advice are often (mostly?) the role of the expert. Pastors, Youth Pastors, and church leaders want to be experts. In a culture that is infatuated with experts, not being an expert is hard. because it means we stop playing the expert. It means we stop giving answers. It means we stop giving advice. It means we stop receiving the responsibility that God has given others. The responsibility that they are often trying to hand us. To find an answer, to spiritually form a child, to give then "the answer" to their problem.

Most pastors feel it's their role to hold their hands out and take these burdens off of the shoulders of others. However, by doing so, we create and enable a barrier between who they are and who they are to be.

Instead of reaching out. The best leadership is discerning when to put your hands in your pockets and refuse to take the responsibilities that belong to others. Of course this can be done beautifully, it's something of an art.

The best leaders in the future will not be known by their will, advice, or problem solving. They will be known by the quality of their questions.

Refuse to Lead

What Pete is saying here, I believe is the way in which we will move to more healthy churches in the Western world. This is what my next book proposal will deal significantly with. This is the nature of Church B. This is the nature of leadership, refusing to enable citizens of the kingdom to give away their responsibility as citizens by leading.
There's way more to this, but this is a good snippet I came across today.

Here's the video.. what do you think?

Come Hang with me in Tulsa in April

April 27-29th my friend Jonathon Reitz (of the Leadershed fame) will be hosting a Leading Church B conference in Tulsa. So much of leadership presented by publishers, conferences and speakers is based on a leadership style few people actually have.

This is Leadership for the rest of us. This is NOT for everyone. Everyone is a participant and you will experience a fundamentally different way of leading people.

If you want more info let me know and I'll send you some info on it!


mark

Riffing on Commitment

This morning I visited a message board of some youth worker friends and saw a conversation about commitment. I thought I'd riff on it for a bit on the message board, then I wondered what the readers of my blog might think. What do you think?

i think this is often about community as well.
I have a couple theories on this, tell me what you think.
It's something of a chicken or egg thing.

Engagement and responsibility it at the core of commitment. People who aren't engaged by feeling a sense of belonging and responsibility for what happens at youth, or the church but do feel that way in other areas of their lives will be more engaged in those other activities. If I'm missing from my basketball team, or cheerleading squad then the team simply can't function as well with out me. I serve an essential function on that team, a unique role and when I'm not there, the team struggles. Whether be a point guard or the person a the base of the pyramid, i feel a sense of responsabilty to be there. In churches were leadership is taken care of, and people give up their responsibility to others, then it gives them space to no longer be engaged.
Youth, families and individuals within our church who aren't engaged in community or see themselves as responsible for their own spiritual well being and the nurture of others quite simply aren't committed to your church. The question then becomes why?

Scenario 1:
On one hand it's a followership issue. People just won't do what we want them to do, or be engaged to the level we think a healthy individual, family, etc should be engaged. In this scenario the leader talks about people outside the room a lot. The leader's job is to somehow leverage influence or to persuade youth, families, indivuals of the benefits of life in the church, or with God etc. This leader either talks like a vicitim a lot, or like a visionary. The victim wonders why everyone outside them won't align with the way things should be, at least from their perspective. The visionary attempts to conform the world to their (read: God's) vision for the church and the world. It seems that only difference between the the victim and the visionary is the amount of confidence and force. I suppose this really isn't a followership issue, it's more of a leadership isn't it? I suppose people value what we teach them to value and if our leadership style is victim or visionary then people aren't really valued in either. The victim resents the people for not going along with their idea. The visionary sees people as cogs in their plan. "Those people will be in community and love each other if it's the last thing I do! WE will be a beautiful church that loves each other and their neighbors!" What people really value, or are committed to doesn't really matter in this view, with the exception of lip service. The visionary church leader sees people as sheep, dumb and in need of serious direction.

Scenario 2:
On the other hand, it's a followership issue. For real this time. That people actually value things, and some might actually value your youth group, and your church. Just in the way's you've taught them to. People who see themselves as responsible for something have a choice. They will either hold on to that responsibilty or they will pass it off to someone else. To hold on to responsibility is be a disciple, to be human to be how we were created. To give away the power and responsibility to someone else is the act of a consumer. The parent who drops their teenager off at your activities but never talks about God might be an example of this. They have give you the power and responsibility to spiritual form their child. They have become a consumer. But before you go off on a "How consumeristic people are..." rant, it should be noted that it takes two people to make a transaction like this and that the more you talk about it, the more you sound like the victim listed about in scenario 1 above. I guess I'm just saying that you freely encourage their action by your action, and probably by your church's action.

That said. You're probably asking the how question by now right? How do we change this pattern? How do we make parent's more responsible? How do we stop enabling them? How do we make people commit or be more accountable.

Friends, How is the wrong question. At least at this point in the game.

How only leads to more of the same. Why? Read the questions I just listed. They are all victim or visionary oriented. They are about people out there, people who must be manipulated or persuaded to fall in line with what I think. More of the same. If you like where you are now, keep asking how. You will never see change, other than superficially.

It begs the question:
What is the role of leadership in the church?
What does engagement look like in the church?
I need to run, but I'm sure there will be more soon...

Toying with an idea

I'm toying with an idea. My good friend David Welch recently suggested this idea and I've been tossing it around and thought I'd get your input.

Folks email me questions pretty often these days wanting some outside perspective to various issues and I respond to every email I get. I give my take and I try to get the takes of others I know. When appropriate I might even spend some time talking with them you) on the phone.

Still others invite me into the church and I partner with them in their own context.

David suggested that I answer some questions that people ask me via video and post them in a video blog post.

What do you think?

I'm really asking here friends. What do you think?

Leadership and Catalyst Quote

"Sometimes I just absolutely love CATALYST and other times I feel so deeply challenged by the whole experience. Just because I feel so messed up emotionally, spiritually, and psychologically by the whole event.
It felt like God was doing spiritual surgery on me on Day 1. What causes me to feel like that you ask? It's a mixture of seeing all the incredible
things so many leaders and visionaries are doing to change the world, the speaker messages, the worship, the environment; just the whole experience -
and then feeling like I'm a disgrace compared to these people who living with total abandon for the Glory and renown of our Savior. Like I'm not doing enough for my King."
- Hervict Jacobs


What stands out to you about this quote?
His last two sentences stand out to me.

Thoughts on Leadership

“No man is satisfied in a swimming bath; he knocks his knees and elbows against its sides; he wants the sea. So with man’s soul, he hungers and thirsts for the ocean, for God; God infinite and Other, different to man, yet working in man…” - Baron F. Von Hugel

"Lust is the craving for salt of a man who is dying of thirst." - Fredrick Buechner


What people say they want, and what they really want may be two different things. The church is a place where people discover there is a sea, and where their brokenness and thirst can be quenched by living water.

As a pastor I carry with me, the fact that I don't want to keep people from the sea, or restoration.

Such a rich quote

Peter Block writes books for business and civic leaders. There's something for us all to learn. I love this little gem.

"We are fascinated with our leaders. We speak endlessly, both in the public conversation and privately, about the rise and fall of leaders. The agenda this sustains is that leaders are cause and all others are effect. That all that counts is what leaders do. That leaders are the leverage point for building a better community. They are foreground while citizens, followers, players, and anyone else not in a leadership position is background. This is a deeply patriarchal agenda, and it is this love of leaders that limits our capacity to create an alternative future. It proposes that the only real accountability in the world is at the top. They are the only ones worth talking about.”
Peter Block, pg 41 Community: The Structure of Belonging